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But this was precisely my point: If all he can do at this point is make statements and symbolic gestures, then the Warren invitation ought to count as a lot as his statement. It can be naive to suppose that Obama won t have approval authority over what will likely be said, and that i doubt he ll permit any morally repugnant statements denigrating the individuals Warren seems down upon a lot. I think Obama has mentioned this on a number of different events and in other ways. However, I do think that the dialogue of Warren is just about exhausted, and I m delighted by Obama s alternative of Chu, Holdren and Lubchenko – three prime scientists who re also very strong on the urgent want for action to mitigate anthropogenic climate change. I don t suppose Obama s alternative was a bad one on Salazar. Jesus, SC, nobody is saying that it isn t an insult to gay individuals. A theist saying he doesn t find the image of a baby gazing on the stars meaningful, is him claiming what you should find significant. I discover it interesting in that I often agree together with your comments and in addition greatly appreciate and might relate to your wonderfully punny sense of humor.
I am writing for me, and that i discover it fascinating. For me, this isn t about his personal motives. I ll state again that for me this has nothing in any way to do with my views of Obama as a person or his private strengths or weaknesses. Nothing you or I can say or do will ever wake them up. His voting report will be as liberal as he needs – he has no centrist base to consider when casting votes. Just as our off-the-rails country can change each leadership and direction, I consider that religious teams on this nation can do the identical factor. What we re saying is that Warren s views are insulting to a variety of people, and that his invitation to ship the invocation might end up to have political positives that permit us to make much-wanted progress in bringing the folks of this nation together, whether you imagine that to be necessary or not. I wasn t saying it s a step along any path, however the equivalent (or approaching it – it s not an ideal analogy) of inviting a bigot in another space. It wasn t the richest area in Southern California, but even most of the students speaking about becoming a member of the navy for college money generally weren t poor by any definition.
As a result they re pissed off by having their beliefs ridiculed; when combined with the impotence of not having the ability to treat us like they might in the good previous days it means they can t think clearly – effectively, even much less clearly than they do on their good days; obviously, if they could think clearly they wouldn t be religious. And to recommend, even in a basic sense, that we can not rely on these we elect to administer our government is an idealistic, revolutionary idea that is quite helpful in motivating folks into action, but holds little worth in actually accomplishing the targets we set for social change. Well, as a number of folks right here have identified, that s very simple to say if you re not gay. Liberals are individuals who, usually, feel as I expressed above. If we atheists are making the circumstances we re making, we couldn t possibly know all the arguments on the market!
I do know what you were making an attempt to say, however your concept that we ll need to eliminate the religious proper fully before attaining true equality for gays and lesbians is just implausible. Philip Freier (I don t know if he s a priest or cardinal or w/e) is totally proper (properly most likely not absolutely , however he has a degree. You realize what I d like to sit in on? It would be like saying that making the assumption that women liking pink is genetically motivated, the trendy existence of crimson dyes should assist to increase that trait within the population – the premise is vastly speculative, and never well supported by the proof. Instead, shmucks like Mich need to condemn the other with out condemning our own position. Dutch, if you would like an mental convo, let s go. Your protestations that you just didn t need to put words in anyone s mouth and, sometimes in the following sentence, demands that PZ make clear or withdraw his preliminary remark were quite arrogant. That s the reason I put in a separate paragraph after the rest of my replies to your comments.
